Review of the W17 ..... by a noted European racer
INTRODUCTION: In 2020, I was contacted by a Farrier racer in Germany who was interested in upscaling his F82R for race performance. He had already built and mounted new amas of a more modern design as well as adding C-foils for added stability, so was now looking to update his rig. With new sails planned, I ended up designing a new Mark.ll Wingmast for him and the excellent results he had with this in subsequent years led this intrepid skipper to become interested in the new design work I was undertaking, presently represented by the W17. As an engineer with an enquiring mind, he expressed an interest to come out to North America to see and test the W17 for himself, something that I was totally supportive of. His name is Andr é Baetz and as there was another W17R not too far away, I organized that Andr é and I would trail my boat out to Maine on the US East Coast, so that he would have a 2nd boat to sail and therefore not confine his input to just one source. As Andr é is a respected and successful skipper in Europe, I consider his observations worth sharing, so after a week sailing in Maine and another two in Vermont, Andr é returned home with an agreement that I would get a report from him in the coming days or weeks. True to his word, I now have it.
So here it is with some pics added. I have added Andr é 's sailing bio at the end. Mike.
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My Review of the W17 trimaran ,..... (by André Baetz, August 2023)
My very first reaction came when I prepared to lower the rudder. Compared to my long deep transom-hung foil on my F82R, this one looked like a postage stamp! I was told it was small to be able to sail in shallow draft but also, that because it was installed UNDER the bottom as a spade rudder, it was more efficient. This way the bottom of the main hull works as an endplate, something which is not possible on my F82R where I partly fly the main hull. The rudder blade of the W17 also has an upper fence to cut risk of ventilation when heeled, but I was still skeptical, and rather condemned it even before trying it.
After pushing off, my first sense was that the boat was very quiet and seemed to just slip through waves like it was specially lubricated . Rather eerie but also very satisfying.
I have to admit that although the main hull looks like a box in section (something I had never sailed in before), as soon as I was sailing, that thought was completely erased, as the boat sails far better than any box I could have imagined! The amas have an asymmetrical trapezoidal shape that I came to appreciate only later when working upwind and also sailing in waves .. but more on that later. ( Image: Andr é being dropped off for a test sail )
Once under way, the light helm was no surprise to me either … but I have to admit, the boat responded better to that ‘pocket handkerchief of a rudder’ than I expected. Guess the effect of being tucked completely under the main hull is worth more than I first thought. Related to any change or correction of the boats course. the rudder angle is higher than on my F82R so I still think that a rudder with the same area but of higher aspect ratio could make steering even more immediate and further reduce the drag of the boat. Of course, that tweak will depend on whether sailing in shallow water is a requirement or not.
The rudder of the W17 still kicked up easily when it hit the bottom and this brought with it a wedge of the hull bottom .. an arrangement I had not seen before. But with a wide alloy hinge at the deck and being pocketed in at the hull bottom, it would be even stronger than the standard 'pintles and gudgeons' used on most small boats I’d seen.
In fact, the design is bristling with new ideas which is fine with me, but only if they work better than other proven solutions. Surprisingly, they all seemed to.
For example, the halyards that exit the mast wall are kept tight to the surface with a new circular disc cleat that Mike developed. This allows the rope tension to ‘pinch’ the rope after one revolution, so that the small flat camcleat below it, only has to hold the end down. It’s light, compact, low cost and fast to use and was still working well after 8 seasons of use on the designers personal boat.
Tiller extensions are 2 meter long, but virtually unbreakable as they are inexpensive PVC tubes. If the tiller load were high, these would not work well in compression, but the load is hardly measurable so they are a great solution for this particular boat.
Unlike most small boats with a daggerboard, this one is designed to kick back about 30 degrees, so absorbing the initial shock on any underwater obstacle. As I once sailed my rigid daggerboard onto a rock, I really like this one. But with the slightly overlength case and slot, I was surprised how little water slopped up, as the cockpit floor is only about 5cm above the waterlevel when sailing. Although I could not see it, I was told this was mainly due to the rear of the case interior having 3 large inverted ‘teeth’ that serve to kill any synchronous slop. If so, it’s simple and it works.
During most of the days I sailed, there was no water or spray coming on board so I’d rate the boat as much drier than most as the near vertical sides of all 3 hulls just slice through the slop and leave it remarkably undisturbed. It has to be the main reason it’s also so quiet. Between the main hull and the amas of my own boat I always observed two waves, one from the main hull and one from the ama bow which meet in the middle of the gap between the hulls causing a wave crest. These waves just don't exist on the W17 so I’m guessing that the wave making drag must be measureably lower.
(Image: note the low bow wave from each hull)
Mind you, it would be hard for me to accept that this boat would not do even better with the board fully down, but this would have to be carefully measured to be sure, as more board is more drag. But with rounded hulls that have precious little side grip, a long board adds more lift than drag so clearly pays off. With the W17, I am now not so sure that still applies.
I also had a day when it was blowing 20k so it was a chance to try out the storm mainsail. On the W17, the aft-facing wingmast-tiller needs access to the boom to limit mast rotation but on this boat, the mainsail rolls around the boom. So the designer has suggested a tight strap to go around the rolled sail, with a D-ring for attaching the mast-tiller line. We had a prototype of this strap on-board but the high load on the tiller dragged it forward, so allowing excessive mast rotation. But we figured out a solution, By lashing the strap back to the outhaul, it could no longer slide forward. That worked much better. I could now concentrate on the reduced rig.
The boat handled this so easily that there was no panic in the strong wind and we continued to make good ground to windward. We had strapped up the ½ furled jib to try and balance the rig but the jib partly pulled out high up, so the shape became pretty inefficient. In the short waves, we missed a couple of tacks and had to sail in reverse to get on the new tack. We also stuffed the bow under a couple of times in the near 1 meter waves that were also very short, but never lost way, so that ‘pocket handkerchief rudder’ continued to surprise me.
After talking with the designer, we went out on another windy day, this time with the full jib. He explained how it’s often beneficial to trim weight aft when tacking in waves and sure enough, I did not miss another tack after that. So, like all new boats, there are little tricks to learn and then they become endearing to you as part of your growing unity with your boat.
(Image: Andre sails Magic across the bow of Merlin )
I also got to sail the boat singlehanded and the reduced displacement was immediately apparent as the boat really accelerated in the puffs in a most satisfying manner and the boat was frankly a thrill to sail like this as it demanded very little physical effort from me. Clearly worth keeping it light.
Overall, for what is still a small boat (mine is 27ft after all), the W17 felt very stable and seemed perfectly capable of looking after me in all realistic conditions. With her ama buoyancy well forward of the main hull buoyancy, much pitching is dampened out so pitching was never an issue in the 3 weeks I spent sailing the two boats.
There are lots of different places to sit and they are mostly very comfortable ones. There are also no less than 8 small ‘deck’ lockers to stuff things into, excluding the two large ‘holds’ forward and aft. All great for any future camp cruising.
I started to imagine what a larger boat with these hulls and general layout would be like and the thought is so appealing that I left thinking there might well be a W19 in my future in a few years.
Overall, this is one impressive boat and I can see why it has become so popular for older sailors who still want efficient performance without all the backache and jumping around that a mono of this length would bring. This boat is also very different from say 'an outrigger' like the W R 17 (Windrider) as it's higher off the water, has a far more spacious cockpit, goes way better upwind and is much drier and more wave-capable too. So where you place the ‘R’ in the designation is important. I mention this as I have seen occasional confusion on boat Forums. What I was testing was a W17R, not a WR17 ;). For myself, I would not consider the Cruising rig as the boat is very stable and sail area can always be reduced. Having more for the lighter winds would be what I would be looking for, but then, I still have racing in my blood and that’s not everyone's choice. It does after all take extra discipline to reef early.
Image: Andre returns Magic to the ramp after another day of sailing
So yes, after 3 weeks of playing with this new toy, I have to give this design a very positive ‘thumbs up’ and if its design goals match yours, just plan a couple of years boat building as this one is not a production boat …. at least, not yet.
Plywood kits are apparently available though: .... in Europe, Australia and North America, and the CNC tape can also be purchased individually from the designer for making a kit using your own plywood.
As the health gurus say “JUST DO IT!”
Regards, André
BIO of André Baetz Ing. (European trimaran racer)
Since writing this review, Andr é returned to the European racing scene and in Sept 2023, entered the most popular race in Europe, the SilverRudder … where 450 boats race the 130 miles around a large Danish island. There were two multihull classes, “Over and Under 28ft”. Andr é made the Small Multi group but was up against a couple of very fast demountable DIAM 24 trimarans’- lightweight hi-tech open day boats just perfect for the moderate conditions. In this hotly contested race and despite not having enough wind to benefit from his added foil stability, Andr é still took a 2 nd place.”
Here is the boat that Andr é owns and races in Europe .. a much modified F82R, here sporting her new sails and Mk.ll wingmast.
Congrats to Andr é once again, and many thanks for his effort to cross an ocean to check out the W17 for himself. He said, "it was definitely worth it".
POSTSCRIPT: Andr é and his boat Flaneur will be a major feature this fall in YACHT, one of the principal yachting magazines in Germany.
German YACHT article now posted here . Spring 2024.
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Comparing the windrider 17 to the weta trimaran, comparing the weta trimaran to the windrider 17 trimaran.
We frequently get asked how the WindRider 17 compares to Weta Trimaran, so we decided to make this page to explain how they are similar and dissimilar. We also want to give some of the positives of each boat
Similarities:
1. Both day sailors
2. Both small trimarans (very stable)
That is where the similarities between the two boats end. The WindRider 17 was designed to be a pleasure sailor for anyone to use, whereas the Weta was designed to be a racing sailboat that that was more stable than a small catamaran.
WindRider 17:
1. Rotomolded. This allows the WindRider 17 Trimaran to be used anywhere, anyhow without concern of damaging the hull.
2. Capacity. The WindRider 17 can carry up to 6 people, while Weta is limited to 3.
4. Dryer boat. The trampoline design and bow design ensure that the waves break beneath you, not on you. No need for a dry suit to sail this trimaran.
5. Motor mount option. While heretical to some, a motor can be a godsend when the winds die, when a storm is coming or when the current and wind and everything else are working against you.
6. Versatility. The WindRider 17 has more options, more cargo space, so choose the type of sailing you want to do. Then do it.
7. Price. The base price of the WindRider trimaran is less than that of the Weta.
Weta Trimaran:
1. One class design. Weta has a strong base of racing fleets across the world for those people interested in racing trimarans. If you are looking to race, and looking for a small trimaran, this is a great option.
2. Carbon fiber. The use of carbon fiber for the mast and akas helps lighten the boat.
3. Very compact design. When disassembled, the boat is only 14ft long and 5.5ft wide. This makes it great for people that have very little area for storage.
4. Speed. With 3 sails standard the Weta will be faster on the water than the WindRider.
If you are looking for a boat to race, then the Weta is the better option. However, if you just want more versatility at a lower price point, then the WindRider is your best option.
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Boat Review: WindRider 17
By Thom Burns Every now and then I get to review a boat in which I’ve had very close involvement. The development of the WindRider 17 has really been fun to watch. The dealers around the country basically demanded the boat based on their feedback from customers who owned the original WindRider 16 and would be buyers of the WindRider 16 who declined to buy either because they wanted a little more carrying capacity, a second cockpit or both.
Jim Brown who designed the WindRider 16 and the 31’ and 37’ Searunner Trimarans designed this one with the WindRider factory team. He took copious notes and accepted a massive amount of input. I was wondering just what he would come up with initially. Then I saw the first prototype. I was impressed.
I’ve been sailing the prototypes now for two years every chance I get. Last summer Mike McGarry, the product manager, and I toured the final prototype through the Midwest. It was enthusiastically received everywhere. Design and Construction The WindRider 17 is rotomolded polyethelene which keeps the price down. All structural reinforcements are anodized aircraft aluminum. This allows the boat to be light and reasonably stiff. The amas telescope in and out with no disassembly. The nets are large, bolt roped to the hull and support optional stiff-backed seats. The center hull has an aft cockpit, the primary driving position, and a larger forward cockpit. The forward cockpit seats two and the hard seat reverses itself to face the driver.
The mast is light weight and rotates which dramatically improves the performance of the full-battened mainsail. The main jiffy reefs on the boom with one line. The optional jib is on a Harken roller furler. The sheets lead to two Harken cam cleats.
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Part of the innovation is how this boat is trailered. It slides on rails on and off the trailer. This perfectly centers the boat and all 320 lbs. is supported by four aluminum pads. The shrouds and nets stay permanently connected. This keeps the launch and retrieval time to a very manageable ten minutes for a solo sailor, less for a couple. This approaches runabout launch and retrieval times. Simplified Concept WindRider has strived to make their boats totally easy to sail. In order to do this, WindRider has eliminated the tiller unless you want one. You sit in a comfortable seat and steer intuitively by pushing your left foot to turn left and your right to turn right. Your facing forward without twisting around. There’s a single mainsheet or a mainsheet and jib both of which are running through cam cleats for ease of handling. All controls are within two feet of the driver.
The wide beam of the WindRider 17 gives it great stability. It is not impossible to tip this boat over under main and jib, but it’s close. You will not capsize this boat unless you work hard at it and refuse to release the main and/or jib sheet.
The carrying capacity on this boat is so great for a 17 footer that it will easily carry four adults and a couple of kids. The optional net seats are ergonomically well designed and comfortable. They feel like soft seats, not benchs. Performance Wow does this boat tack. It doesn’t get much easier than pushing your foot and stopping when the main fills on the opposite tack. For even faster tacks, back the jib for a moment as the boat sails through the wind. Jibes are a cinch compared to most small boats because the boom is way high over everyone’s head. Even if it’s not real smoothe, there are no headaches and no swim. The boat is quick, on the edge of fast. In ten knots we were going upwind at 7 to 8 knots. On a beam reach the speed picked up to 9 to 10 according to my GPS. In gusts to about 12 we were hitting 10.5 no problem. Later in about 15 knots of wind we were cruising at 12.5 in 2 plus foot chop and the boat was dry. No water in the boat, an occasional drop or two in the face, but no heavy duty spray. Conclusion
Alexis Olson carrying on an animated conversation from the front cockpit on a chilly day in October. |
This is an exhilarating boat which is even more than what the builder and designer wanted. It is quick, it is fun to sail, it is easy to launch and retrieve. It will make a great day sailor. It will be a good camper sailor for the adventurous. It will be an excellent one design racer/cruiser for those who want to go quickly with ease. Where strength and agility will not determine the outcome of a little friendly race.
The thing that turns me on the most is how it empowers the young and the non-sailors who seem to intuitively pick up the nack of sailing. Try this boat, you won’t believe you’re only sailing a seventeen foot boat.
Thom Burns publishes Northern Breezes and Sailing Breezes Internet Magazines. Northern Breezes: 763-542-9707
WindRider: 612-338-2170 www.windrider.com
The next Trimaran Sailing Clinic hosted by Windcraft will be at the Fort Walton Yacht Club in the Florida Panhandle May 5-7, 2017. However we are completely fully booked up for that clinic. The next one with spaces available will be the weekend of October 14-15. In our clinics 16 students will see their sailing skills improve dramatically over the two days of the course which is taught by world class multihull sailor and coach Randy Smyth. Students of all levels are introduced to Randy’s highly effective techniques for optimizing sail trim, and learn how best to hoist, jibe and douse a spinnaker, as well as how to tack a screacher upwind. Call or email us for more information.
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The boat is constructed of rotomolded polyethelene which is very durable and less maintenance than fiberglass. The 17 is so easy to trailer it slides on rails to be put on and off the trailer and can be towed behind most vehicles. The launch and retrieval time of the boat for a solo sailor is about 30 minutes and 10 minutes for 2 or more sailors.
Sailboat Specifications. Definitions. Hull Type: Trimaran with fixed unballasted keel. Rigging Type: Frac. Sloop (Rotating Spar) LOA: 17.33 ft / 5.28 m.
But his first trimaran (F82R) came only in 2015 and Andr é also named it Flaneur in memory of those early days. Since owning it, Andr é has annually made a raft of improvements to get it to perform at progressively higher levels, building new carbon composite amas, plus solid CF C-foils for added stability plus a new rudder and daggerboard ...
The WindRider 17 was designed to be a pleasure sailor for anyone to use, whereas the Weta was designed to be a racing sailboat that that was more stable than a small catamaran. Positives: WindRider 17: 1. Rotomolded. This allows the WindRider 17 Trimaran to be used anywhere, anyhow without concern of damaging the hull. 2. Capacity.
On a beam reach the speed picked up to 9 to 10 according to my GPS. In gusts to about 12 we were hitting 10.5 no problem. Later in about 15 knots of wind we were cruising at 12.5 in 2 plus foot chop and the boat was dry. No water in the boat, an occasional drop or two in the face, but no heavy duty spray. Conclusion.
Description. 17' Windrider Rave hydrofoiling trimaran. Boat is complete, in good condition and has all the factory options. Includes: Custom galvanized trailer with new waterproof LED lights. Beach Dolly. Roller furled screacher sail mounted on a long bowsprit. Adjustable trim tab on the rudder foil. Garmin GPS chartplotter on a RAM mount (less ...
Listed Aug 10. Expired. $7,500 USD. Seller's Description. Our Windrider 17 is for sale. Great boat with lots of life left in her. Comes with good trailer, complete rigging and sails, 2 custom benches, and Honda 2.3 outboard w/ low hours. WR17 Trimaran Sailboat: The premier WindRider Trimaran is the most fun youll have on the water.
North Carolina. $6,575. Description: Windrider 17 trimaran in excellent shape. 2015 WR17 trailer, WR motor mount, 2020 Minnkota electric motor with deep cell battery, WR17 mast raising system and WR 17 storage shell and pockets. Equipment: Location: High Point, North Carolina. L92007.
The wave-piercing hull allows for remarkable cruising speeds as it "knifes" through waves. The Windrider's rotomolded polyethylene body weighs only 230 pounds, and it breaks down into three manageable hulls for transport and storage. ... Windrider 17. The new Windrider 17 trimaran was also designed by Jim Brown and extends the concept of the ...
The wave-piercing hull allows for remarkable cruising speeds as it "knifes" through waves. The Windrider's rotomolded polyethylene body weighs only 230 pounds, and it breaks down into three manageable hulls for transport and storage. ... Windrider 17 The new Windrider 17 trimaran was also designed by Jim Brown and extends the concept of ...
The WindRider 17 was designed to be a pleasure sailor for anyone to use, whereas the Weta was designed to be a racing sailboat that that was more stable than a small catamaran. This allows the WindRider 17 Trimaran to be used anywhere, anyhow without concern of damaging the hull. The WindRider 17 can carry up to 6 people, while Weta is limited ...
Opens in a new window. WR17 Trimaran Sailboat The premier WindRider Trimaran is the most fun you'll have on the water. Down by the bay or out on the ocean, a WindRider 17 is your first-class ticket to fast and easy sailing. Enthusiasts of all ages and capabilities can rig and launch it. The mast weighs just 35 lbs for easy lifting, or can be.
Built by Windrider Sailing Trimarans and designed by Jim Brown, the boat was first built in 2002. It has a hull type of Trimaran with fixed unballasted keel and LOA is 5.28. Its sail area/displacement ratio 28.33. Its auxiliary power tank, manufactured by undefined, runs on undefined. WINDRIDER 17 has retained its value as a result of superior ...
2018. 17'. 15'. 1'. Florida. $10,000. Description: Windrider 17 is a fast daysailer trimaran, designed by Jim Brown, that is so stable it is classified as nearly uncapsizable. We chose this boat precisely because it is easy to sail for beginners and yet experienced sailors use it to go on multi-day trekking expeditions and/or racing.
Sailing and surfing a WindRider 17 trimaran from Goodland, FL to Panther Key in the 10,000 Islands while on my way to a 5 day primitive camping trip. The win...
Description. The premier WindRider is the most fun you'll have on the water. Down by the bay or out on the ocean, a WindRider 17 is your first-class ticket to fast and easy sailing. Enthusiasts of all ages and capabilities can rig and launch it: the mast weighs just 35 pounds for easy lifting, or can be raised with our exclusive pulley system ...
Windrider 17 is a 17′ 3″ / 5.3 m monohull sailboat designed by Jim Brown/Windrider and built by Windrider Sailing Trimarans starting in 2002. Great choice! Your favorites are temporarily saved for this session. Sign in to save them permanently, access them on any device, and receive relevant alerts. ...
When Andy and John teamed up with Jim Brown, creator of the SeaRunner 31 and 37, the WindRider trimaran was created as a new product and WindRider Sailing Trimarans became a new division within the company. In 1996 the first roto-molded, wave-piercing trimaran left the factory, followed by hundreds more.
31' Mariner Ketch - Major Restoration & Repower - New Rigging & Sails Tenants Harbor Maine, Maine Asking $45,000
17 year old girl committed suicide in Moscow . ... Every time suicide is discussed in the media, there are a wave of copy cat deaths. Media sites like reddit know this, and still encourage it to be discussed. Schools or tv shows talking about it openly does not help people. If someone is contemplating suicide, call the police immediately.
The Boeing X-51 forebody is an example of cone-derived waverider The Chinese Project 0901 Flying Vehicle of CASIC shows another configuration of waverider. Small-scale model of the Soviet/Russian Ayaks aircraft exposed at the 1993 MAKS Air Show, Moscow.It is still currently under development. A waverider is a hypersonic aircraft design that improves its supersonic lift-to-drag ratio by using ...
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range both Standing(SW) and Travelling Wave (TW) oper-ations are possible. For comparison, rf parameters for TW Disk Loaded Waveguide (DLW) as well as for SW Coupled Cells Structures (CCS) have been optimized at an operat-ing frequency of 1300 MHz in a wide range of cells di-mensions. General properties for the two operating modes